Inside Life on Tour: Stories from the Road with Caleb Hickman

[this transcript was edited for clarity]

Jacob:

Hey, Jeff, welcome to our next episode of the Human Friend Digital podcast.

Jeffrey:

Hey Jacob. So, we’ve got a guest on the show today. Caleb, you want to introduce yourself?

Caleb: 

Yes, my name is Caleb Hickman, from St. Louis, Missouri, but currently living in Indiana, Bloominginton, and I’m a touring musician.

Jacob: 

Yes, welcome, Caleb, and don’t sell yourself short. You’re a touring musician with the band Houndmouth. You play keyboards and do background vocals for them, and you know how to play the slide guitar, some saxophone, and I could probably throw just about anything at you, and you’d figure out how to play it well enough within a day.

Caleb: 

Yeah, it’d take a little time, but yeah.

Jacob: 

You’ve got some skills. And not only with Houndmouth, you’ve toured with Diane Coffee and even with Of Montrel once. You’ve played places like Red Rocks, and you’ve been to Cincinnati on some tours, right?

Caleb: 

Yeah. Gotta love the old MOTR Pub—top spot.

Jacob: 

Exactly. So, Caleb, I’m excited to have you on because we’re friends. We go back—we went to college together for a bit. 

So we wanted you on because you have a pretty unique story and lifestyle, and as the Human Friend Digital Podcast has grown, our goal is that we have “Digital Episodes”, as well as “Friend Episodes” that highlight something cool going on in the world. Jeff is usually the one I torture, but thankfully, you’re the person I can torture this week. So, Jeff, welcome!

Jeffrey: 

Thanks for taking the heat off me this time.

Jacob: 

Give him a break. Jeff, why don’t you hit Caleb with our first question and let him talk for a bit?

Jeffrey: 

Okay, Caleb, you’ve been on the road for years, touring in vans and buses, playing all kinds of venues. What’s it like to be a touring musician, especially backstage when you’re not playing?

Caleb: 

Honestly, it’s a lot of waiting—just sitting around. You find ways to fill the time, like sitting in the back of some fluorescent-lit room, hitting gas stations on the way, sitting in the van listening to podcasts, music, or just yapping at the boys in the van. It’s not glamorous, but then you get that hour on stage, and it’s like chasing the dragon—it keeps you coming back.

Jeffrey: 

Yeah, absolutely.

Jacob: 

So, before and after the gig, it’s basically you’re in a wait mode, or traveling mode?

Caleb: 

Travel, and then like, set up lugging the gear inside, and getting it set up, and talking to the sound guy, getting his vibe. And you know, trying to make nice with everybody that you meet at each venue and, just kind of, yeah, trying to get your like…

Jeffrey: 

You don’t want to burn bridges?

Caleb: 

Right. I like to think about it like “how quickly can I get on the level with you?” Whoever is working?

Jacob: 

Who’s your favorite sound guy or venue sound guy?

Caleb: 

Oh man, I mean, there is a caveat to that. At a certain point with some bands, like with Houndmouth, we have our own sound guy that travels with us. His name is Mike Reyna, and he’s great. He used to do sound at the 9:30 Club in Washington, D.C., which is a kind of historic venue. I owe a lot to sound guys, not just for making the band sound good, but also to a dear friend of mine, Tim Smiley, who does sound for The Head and the Heart. He and I go way back, and he’s helped me get all the jobs. He actually was the one who connected me with Houndmouth.

Jacob: 

Wow, that’s awesome.

Jeffrey: 

That’s really cool.

Jacob:

Yeah, it’s nice to hear you shouting out those people because, a lot of times, I feel like when you see a band on stage—or when people see a band on stage—the sound guy is so important. All the background people are so important for this, but you’re there for the band. Still, there’s a lot that goes into it.

Caleb: 

Yeah.

Jacob: 

Um, one other thing I want to circle back on is, you know, you talked about vans and buses. So, like, what’s it like being in a van with a band? And what’s it like being on a tour bus with a band? And since you did tell me that you’re not in the premium, like, Rolling Stone tour bus world, describe this for our audience, because I don’t think people really understand how you get to places and what it’s like.

Caleb:

Yes. So, a Van is pretty standard. You can kind of imagine what that would be. It’s just like going on a road trip or a family vacation. You know, you’re packed in the Ford Econoline van, the 12-passenger, 15-passenger, stacking the gear Tetris-style to make it all fit. And…

Jacob: Is it usually one van? You’re getting the band in one?

Caleb: 

If you’re good at packing and don’t have too much gear, you can get it all in a van. But sometimes, you do need a trailer, which, not to toot my own horn, but I’m pretty good at driving a van with a trailer. I can back it up. One of my proudest moments was in Canada. We were pulling up, and I perfectly, on the first try, parallel parked a giant van and trailer. There was a pizza shop with all glass windows, and everyone inside just froze. Then, when I got out, they all started clapping for me. It was a pretty great moment.

Yeah, I didn’t know I needed that, but it really gave me life for that tour.

Jacob: 

What was the band where you did a band Tour With?

Caleb: 

That was definintatl;uy with  Diane Coffee. There’s something about being in a van together—it’s a relationship accelerator. You get really close with everyone.

Jacob: 

And with Houndmouth, you’re on a tour bus, right?

Caleb:

Because 

Jacob: 

Who drives the bus? Do you hire a bus driver?

Caleb: 

Yep, there’s a hired bus driver. Most of them used to drive trucks, and they just love the road. They drive all night while we sleep in our bunks.

Jeffrey:

 What’s the farthest you’ve traveled between two venues?

Caleb: 

Bus drivers legally can’t drive more than eight hours without a break, so if we need to go further, it’s called overdrive. But we’ve done some long hauls, like from Portland to San Francisco, which is a 13-hour drive.

Jacob: 

That’s crazy! Now, I’ve got to ask—what are some surprising parts of the bus experience?

Caleb:

The biggest thing is the no-pooping rule. Only liquids down the toilet, or it’ll cost us a $500 cleaning fee. So, yeah, gas stations become important.

Jacob: 

Has anyone ever had to go when you couldn’t stop?

Caleb:

Uh, yeah. That’s when you grab a bag…

Jeffrey: Oh no…

Caleb: 

It’s only happened twice in my time, but yeah, sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures.

Jacob: Let’s move on from potty talk. What are your favorite venues, and what’s the worst place you’ve played?

Caleb: 

Red Rocks in Colorado is incredible—legendary for both musicians and audiences. Worst? I can’t throw too much shade, but it’s often about the people working at the venue more than the venue itself. One dive I remember is Kilby Court in Salt Lake City. It’s half indoor, half outdoor—definitely a unique place.

Jacob:

Do you prefer playing big venues or small, intimate ones?

Caleb: 

Small places are more fun in a lot of ways. You get immediate energy from the crowd. In big theaters, you can’t always see past the first couple of rows, so there’s a bit of a disconnect.

Jeffrey: 

You might get more volume from a big crowd, but less connection.

Caleb: 

Yes, it is. It’s not isolated, but there is a bit of a disconnect—I’m performing these songs, and then we finish. There’s something great about a huge room of people singing along, which is crazy.

But it’s also fun to switch it up. We’ve done tours where we perform in a big venue one night and then a smaller place the next. It really gives you the best of both worlds in some ways.

Jacob:

So, you’re in Houndmouth, playing keyboards and doing background vocals, but you’re not the front-and-center person of the band, nor in other bands you’ve toured with. I think it’s fun to have you here because, usually, when you listen to famous podcasts—unlike this one—you hear from the front people. So this is cool since you’re a behind-the-scenes person. What’s it like being part of the backstage group, and what connections have you made while paddling along with others on this journey?

Caleb: 

I think I naturally enjoy being the behind-the-scenes guy; that’s just how I operate. But I’m a human being—I’d like to say I’m very Zen and self-assured, but every now and then, there’s that human desire to be acknowledged for your work.

And there’s some of that too. But not being recognized has its perks—like walking around before the show. If a bunch of fans see the singer, they’ll want to talk, chat, and take pictures, while I can just scoot around and do my own thing. I really enjoy doing a good job, giving the best performance I can to support the music. I didn’t write most of these songs, so my focus is on making them sound as good as they can. I find fulfillment in that.

But, of course, envy strikes every now and then. It’s something I try to reckon with and be better about. It’s a tightrope sometimes.

Jacob:

I can imagine. I’m sure the band leans back sometimes and says, “Hey, this is Caleb,” right?

Caleb:

Yes, and I’m grateful for those moments.

Jacob:

Do you feel a special bond with the other members who aren’t front and center? Like, is there a little clique, or is everyone vibing?

Caleb:

For the most part, everyone is vibing. In all the bands I’ve been part of, there’s been solid camaraderie, and everyone gets along. With Houndmouth, we have a fairly new bass player, and he’s a younger guy. It’s funny—I feel like I’m bringing my “old man wisdom” to the table, like, “Come here, kid, let me show you how we do things and how to survive this weird life we’ve chosen.” So, yeah, I do…

Jeffrey:

Yeah, that’s cool, that mentorship stuff.

Caleb:

Yeah, I think that just comes with age. Now that I’m in my mid-to-late thirties, I feel like this is the time you naturally start taking on that teacher or mentor role. But yeah, like we were talking about earlier with the sound guys—I really want to give a shout-out to all the sound engineers, merch sellers, lighting crew, tour managers, and everyone behind the scenes. In many ways, they work way longer hours than the band and truly make the show happen. They’re the unsung heroes, and I definitely want to show special support to them.

Jacob:

Yeah, exactly. It takes a lot to put a production together. You’ve got to get everyone there on time and coordinate everything, and there’s a ton of heavy gear to move for the band.

Caleb:

Oh, yeah.

Jacob:

And then, of course, you get to go along with the other touring bands as well.

Caleb:

Yes. Yeah.

Jacob:

That’s all part of the experience—And I know that you’ve toured with Of Montreal, you said, which is a personal favorite of mine.

Jeffrey:

Yeah, I would say it was my favorite band in college. Not so much anymore, but you know, for a while i was really into them.

Jacob:

And they put on one heck of a show.

Jeffrey:

Super cool that you got to go with them. And yeah, their productions are always like, stage plays, like really over the top.

Caleb:

They would involve us like other their opening bands like they would get the opening bands involved in it as well. I’ve definitely danced half naked with a mask on for a number of shows.

Jacob:

That’s so fun. And you got to meet Kevin Barnes, right?

Caleb:

Yeah, a little bit. I definitely spent more time with everyone else, as he tends to keep to himself in that artistic way, which is totally fine. He’s the main mastermind, so he takes his own time to do his thing, but he’s still kind and approachable.

That tour was really memorable for me. Everyone in that crew was amazing—so welcoming and kind. It was definitely one of those formative experiences.

Jacob:

Yeah, that’s great. Now, Houndmouth, they’re really famous and they’re touring with a bunch of people. Are there any notable bands that you tour with, with them?

Caleb:

Well, I’m trying to think of big bands that we’ve toured with. We’ve done a lot of little one-offs. Like, we haven’t done too many big tours, like opening for a band, but we have done a number of shows here and there. One band that we’ve done some shows with this past year was Trampled by Turtles. They’re kind of like an acoustic instrument, folk band out of Minnesota.

But they were all incredibly nice, and the crowds were great. And we also just did our first show with the Avett Brothers a couple of weeks ago. Again, great crowd, great audience. Haven’t gotten to, like, hang with them, but we have one more show with them in October, so…

Jacob:

Oh, that’ll be great. And I believe, if I can say, that Houndmouth is coming out with a new record soon—possibly some recordings, maybe not a full record. So, tell us, what’s in the future for the band?

Caleb:

Still got some recording and writing going on, which has been more about holing up. The band is based in the New Albany, Indiana/Louisville, Kentucky area, so I stroll down there every now and then. We rehearse and try to work out new songs, so that’s still in progress.

But yeah, we’ve got more tours coming up. We have a few dates at the beginning of October, then a couple more later in October, and then through the first half of November. So, we’ll be out there fairly soon.

Jacob:

Any place you’re excited to visit?

Caleb:

I know, I’m trying to think… Well, we’ve done this a couple of times, but we’re playing Asbury Park again. We’re playing at The Stone Pony, where the old boss got his start. So that’s a little Jersey Shore—always fun. We’ll also be doing the 9:30 Club in DC, which is one of the first venues I got to play when I started touring. It’s such a historic, legendary venue, and it’s even famous for their cupcakes.

Jacob:

What is, uh, you know… What were some of the famous things that happened at the 9:30?

Caleb:

It’s been around for so long. It’s kind of just like one of those institution-like venues, like Red Rocks or… Just huge in the DC scene, which, well, you know, like NPR is based there. So, a lot of bands that do Tiny Desk performances will also be playing at the 9:30 Club. The crew there is really great, and it’s just well-known for its hospitality and great audiences.

Jeffrey:
Known for cupcakes too, I guess.

Caleb:
Yes, they have their famous, world-famous 9:30 cupcakes.

Jeffrey:
That’s hilarious. I love that.

Jacob:
So, I want to ask a question about this recording thing because I feel like people don’t get that the recording studio experience is much different than the tour experience.

Caleb:
Yes. Yeah.

Jacob:
So, you’ve been touring with them since 2016. That’s been a while. Have you appeared on any of their recordings from that time, or will this be the first time you’re going to be appearing on some of the recordings?

Caleb:

This will be some of the first time. There were some live recordings we did for an EP that I was part of, but this upcoming set of recordings, I’ll have been more heavily involved with the writing and recording process.

Jacob:

Is that changing the dynamic of the relationship a little bit? What is that recording studio process like? I know we’re getting a little off topic here, but I’m just curious what that feels like because touring is one thing—I can see that—but I can’t go to the studio with you. So, what is that like?

Caleb:

Honestly, it’s different for every band, but with Houndmouth, it is different because I’ve toured with them, so they know I’m skilled. But creating something is a different thing—it’s like you’re just trying to throw ideas out there, like throwing paint at the canvas. It’s a different mindset of keeping your mind open, being playful, but also trying to create something new. So, it’s a little bit like a new relationship because you’re not just playing songs that have already been written—you’re creating something new. You’re trying to see what you can bring to the table.

I’ve done plenty of recording with other bands, but I haven’t done too much recording with Houndmouth. So, it’s a fun experience to showcase myself in that setting.

Jeffrey:

Which do you prefer? Do you prefer playing other people’s music in the live experience, or do you get more into the creative process with some of your previous bands?

Caleb:

I like both. They’re similar in that I’m just trying to make the songs, whether they’re already recorded or something new, the best they can be. I try to impart my personal taste and be confident in what I’m bringing, knowing that it’s good and can add to the song. They both have different levels of exhaustion. Touring is exhausting in the literal sense of traveling, and the studio can be mentally exhausting. You’re in a room for 7-12 hours a day, banging your head against the wall, trying to get ideas out. Sometimes you go down too many holes, and you need a producer or someone else to pull you out, get you out of your head, and keep it fun and light without getting too bogged down.

Jacob:

So, do you find it easier to play live with the group on stage, or is it nice to sit down in a studio and be chill about it? Is there a different kind of performance anxiety between the two? I would assume so, but can you talk a little bit about what that feels like?

Caleb:

Yeah, they’re both exposing in different ways. Being literally on stage, you’re are just exposed to a bunch of strangers and people you don’t know. But I’ve been touring so long, and it’s such a heft part of being a musician these days, that it feels like a job. It sounds weird to say going to Red Rocks is just another day at the office. It’s both astounding and surreal to be in such a place, but I’m still playing the same songs I’ve been playing for a long time with this band.

And obviously there’s some new stuff, and that’s when you feel a little exposed—like when you’re going to try a new song out that you haven’t played before. You’ll see how the audience responds, and that can be vulnerable, but the payoff if it goes well.

In the studio, there’s a different kind of being exposed. You can be playing and think, “Yeah, that’s a pretty good idea.” But sometimes when somebody’s hit record and you now that it’s being recorded, you can get really in your own head, or like every note feels so… not “dire,” but “this is it, this is being recorded.”

Jacob:

You don’t want to screw it up.

Caleb:

Yes, so, yeah, there is a lot of that. For me, I think I can get in my own head in the studio, and, you know, thankfully we’re not in the Beatles’ days where there’s physical tape as the only way, so you can re-record stuff if you mess up. But I also don’t want to mess up because I want… you know, there is the competitive part of yourself, like, “No, I want to get this in one take. I want to nail this.”

Jacob:

Yeah, because I bet it takes quite a long time to get it just right. Now, I want to ask one question about it: do you have the whole song written before the recording process starts? Or are you recording and writing as you go, as you get this feedback?

Caleb:

I think for me, I do like a healthy balance of both. There is something to be said about locking in and being prepared before you go into the studio—at least, like, foundationally, with the arrangement and what the parts are—but also trying to leave room for “studio magic,” which is just a term I use. There’s something special about being in a studio and a bunch of creative minds just bashing together, and something will just come up out of nowhere, or a mistake turns into something cool. You want to allow yourself that space because that could lead you down another cool pathway and make something either to add to the song or a completely new idea. So there is a little bit of both. 

But I think sometimes, if you’re not fully prepared, you can get lost in the weeds pretty quickly. So I do feel like there’s some level of preparation that’s necessary to then allow yourself the freedom to explore a little bit more in the studio.

Jeffrey:

Plus, I imagine it’s also really expensive to do the full creative process in a studio where you’re paying by the minute or whatever.

Caleb:

Yeah, we don’t have Beatles budgets anymore where you can spend weeks on end. But again, that is also… limitation is a great creative motivation in a lot of ways. I talk about this with other musician friends a lot—whether it’s writing a song or performing or getting in the studio, sometimes less is more. Trying to remember that is key.

Jeffrey:

Constraint can provide freedom.

Caleb:

Yes, exactly. Totally.

Jacob:

So, one more logistical question for me about this, because I’m just curious. You said you could have eight to twelve-hour days in a studio. How many songs get tracked and mixed in that time? Is that like one song for a whole day, or do you feel like you can do five songs?

Caleb:

It could be anything. It depends on the songs, but I feel like a good day is if you got three or four songs solid in there. That’s good.

Jacob:

Because, like your set, right? How many songs do you play in an hour-long set?

Caleb:

Anywhere from like 14 to 18, I guess, maybe a little more.

Jacob:

So, you can play those live in like one hour, but then that recording process might take a whole day or more to get like three to four good tracks.

Caleb:

Yes, because you might adjust. Not everybody was pleased with the performance, or the engineer wants to change some mic placement or different gear things. But also, because you’re going to be in there all day, you don’t want to have too much ear fatigue or just fatigue from wasting brain cells trying to get the same ideas down. So you do want to leave space for rest and breaks and kind of recharge moments throughout the day.

Jacob:

So here’s my question. Let’s go back to 1920…

Caleb:

Okay.

Jacob:

All the way to this decade. If you were able to be born in any decade for the music scene, which one would you pick?

Caleb:

Man, that’s a really difficult question, one because it’s different for musical genres. In my mind, there are different “glory times” for each, but I mean, if I’m being honest, like I talk about with a lot of my friends, the ’70s is just… there’s so much good music. It sounds cliché, but it is. ’74, ’73, those are great years for music.

Jacob:

I think so, too. That was going to be my era, too. I’d be like right after the Beatles kind of got out of the way. The music industry was really alive.

Jeffrey:

Yeah, when disco was king, is that what we’re talking about?

Jacob:

Disco…

Caleb:

Yeah.

Jacob:

All this funk music was just so great. Mothership and all that stuff from that era. I like funk music a ton.

Caleb:

Oh, yeah. Same.

Jacob:

So that whole era… this weekend, I took the kids out, and I was like, “What do I want to put on Spotify?” There’s a playlist called “70s Upbeat.” I was like, this is my ultimate dad playlist now.

Caleb:

Yeah.

Jacob:

I mean, I’m sure if anybody listens to it, they’re like, “Wow, this guy’s really white,” but I really like that era.

Jeffrey:

You know, all that rap stuff over there, like, “Jesus, Jacob.”

Jacob:

I know, I know. It’s like one of those…

Jeffrey:

You’re disconnected from big parts of culture right now.

Jacob:

I am. I am. I’m willfully disconnected.

Jeffrey:

You’re also a dad, so it’s like…

Caleb:

Yeah. I mean, to be fair, rap has kind of dominated the whole market now. It’s the center of the mainstream.

Jacob:

Absolutely.

Jeffrey:

A lot of it is.

Jacob:

There’s some really great stuff, too. It’s earned its place a hundred times over, and some of the best, most successful artists in the world operate in that space—rap, hip-hop, dance, all that stuff. And the R&B of today is… which is crazy compared to what it was in the 70’s

Caleb:

Yeah. Oh, totally.

Jacob:

I mean, not to knock it. I’m not knocking it. Everybody’s got their own flavor.

Caleb:

Oh yeah.

Jacob:

It’s just, you know, I’m a ’70s man. So it’s funny that you want to be a ’70s man too. See, this is why we’re friends, Caleb. This is it. I could tell you were an old man when I met you.

Caleb:

Eighteen years old, and we’re like, “You look old as hell, man.”

Jacob:

Yeah, I mean, I’ve always been like 18 going on 50. That was me. 

So, alright, well, this was great. I’m enjoying this.

Jeffrey:

Caleb, this has been… it’s been really fun talking to you guys because this is so far off what we usually talk about. So, I had a really fun time…

Caleb:

Cool. Yeah.

Jeffrey:

…not listening to  Jacob goes on and on about KPIs and…

Caleb:

I don’t even know what that is.

Jeffrey:

Yeah, I…

Jacob:

You should listen to the pod.

Caleb:

I know. Which one do I start with? There was one that you were…

Jeffrey:

Uh, there’s some good ones in there. Just go to our Buzzsprout and see which one has the most plays. That’ll…

Caleb:

Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah. Then I’ll just work my way down.

Jacob:

Just do the acronym soup series. I feel like that’s my favorite series that we do.

Caleb:

Okay, okay.

Jacob:

But some of them are bad. You should really listen to the ones where we go off-topic with Jeff. If you like “Dune,” “Dune’s” a good one. The “Dune” episode.

Jeffrey:

We have a “Dune” episode. We have one about beer and wine because I worked in the hospitality industry for a long time. And then we have one about backpacking.

Jacob:

Yeah, and we have an interview with Vissing, a commercial photographer.

Caleb:

Oh yeah.

Jeffrey:

That one is good. So, that’s another good one to start with.

Jacob:

So, there are some good ones. There are also some really boring ones.

Jeffrey:

There are a lot of boring ones.

Jacob:

So, alright, Caleb, this has been so fun. I’m so glad to have you on, just to like rekindle our friendship, but also learn about all this cool stuff with bands and have an insider telling us about it because I don’t know any of these things. So, it was really, really great to have you on.

Caleb:

Well, thank you for having me. I was happy to share all my deep dark secrets about being on the road. So, thank you for giving that space for me.

Jacob:

It was great.

Jeffrey:

Thanks, Caleb.

Caleb:

Yeah, thank you, Jeffrey. Appreciate it.